Call for beta testing

[Grallonsphere]

I have completed an integrated version that includes the new building system I've designed for TPTT. I invite you all to download it and launch it instead of the 'official' TPTT in order to test how the development of holdings work out in game. I also invite you to comment on how things play out - on any imbalance - on any anachronisms. We will analyze your comments and make changes accordingly if warranted before we add the building system in the next official version.

--------------------

EDIT - 24-05-13: New version of the TPTT Test mod - including the revised version of the building system.


TPTT Test Mod v.2

And here's the TPTT Building Master Index - so you may get a broad overview of the underlying logic behind the Building System.

TPTT Building Master Index v 2.7

[Solo]

Remember this is beta testing, dont get attached to the savegame.

Also just to clarify, I think the beta version is based on release 2.1.2 (I'll let G. confirm that) so it doesn't include any other change made in between.

[Grallonsphere]

Yes that's it - R 2.1.2.

[Ixor_Drakar]

Took a quick look around and I like what I see so far. I'll play a game tonight to see how things pan out. I did notice a few issues though. Scotland has longbows, Adalusians and Catalans have no cultural building. Also should provinces in Ireland and Scotland be able to build a winery? Seems a bit too far north.

[Grallonsphere]

Iberian Fast Horses are available to all cultures included in the Iberian culture group. As for the wine making facilities - they are dependent on the presence of wine cultivation buildings - which are available only in certain key provinces. I do not know why the game displays those but if you hover your mouse on top of the wine press you will see it requires a vineyard which cannot be built in Ireland.

[jquinn914]

Noticed a few issues right away. #1 There seems to be duplicate cultural buildings for each culture, #2 Scotts have longbows, #3 (not sure if intended or not) irish/scotts seem to be missing the pikeman one (for scotts) and gallowglass (for irish) and instead have housecarl (scandinavian culture building).

[Grallonsphere]

For the duplicate buildings - did you load the test mod alone or with something else?

Regarding the other items you mentioned - the code specify the potential cultures that can build things as well as the culture of the holding's tenant. Since most of Scotland is in fact scot-gael - thus cletic - I modified the file in question.

Here it is:

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?hd2drdc5s1qalby

[jquinn914]

So is Scot-Gael with longbow ranges intended?

Edit: I apologize for some incorrect information, it seems I installed incorrectly the first time. However, the prior question still stands as I do believe the Scots are supposed to have the Schiltron building rather than the longbow one.

[Grallonsphere]

Did you download the fix above? I fixed it there. Now only English, Saxon and Welsch can build the longbow chain - while Norsegaelic & Scottish can build the Schiltron buildings.

[jquinn914]

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought you were showing me the current script. Thanks, that's awesome!

Edit: Scotland's cultural retinue is the Irish heavy infantry rather than the Schiltron, suspect this is a mistake.
Solved: Gallows were listed as norsegaelic causing all scots to have gallows. By swapping the culture = norsegaelic to the Scot retinue I made schiltron retinues available again

[Ixor_Drakar]

I decided to start a list of unique resource buildings for provinces as a sort of guideline for which ones will be the most profitable to own. As I started I realized I could also make suggestions on new ones if you would like to add them. I started with Sicily.

Spoiler:

Black is what is already in game, red are suggestions. Also Sicily should have more wheat and possibly an exotic fruit building tree if you want. The Muslims did introduce oranges, lemons and others along with the sugarcane you already have. Let me know if you are interested in more.

[Grallonsphere]

...

Edit: Scotland's cultural retinue is the Irish heavy infantry rather than the Schiltron, suspect this is a mistake.

The structures are dependent on a) the provincial culture & b) the holding ruler's culture. The current setup in 1066 has may Scottish provinces with the Saxon or Celtic cultures. The Shiltrons will appear only when *both* provincial and ruler cultures are either : Norsegael or Scottish - where the former is the proto Scottish - just like the Franks are proto Français.

[jquinn914]

So, swapping norsegael to schiltron retinue was a mistake on my part :S? If I'm the scot-gael king of Scotland in a scot-gael capital, I still have to convert everyone in my realm somehow to scot-gael in order to have schiltron retinues available? Sorry, these dynamic cultures confuse me lol.

You mind if I start a separate thread on this type of stuff? as I feel like I'm spamming your thread which is for the new building system of course.

[Grallonsphere]

I decided to start a list of unique resource buildings for provinces as a sort of guideline for which ones will be the most profitable to own. As I started I realized I could also make suggestions on new ones if you would like to add them. I started with Sicily.

Black is what is already in game, red are suggestions. Also Sicily should have more wheat and possibly an exotic fruit building tree if you want. The Muslims did introduce oranges, lemons and others along with the sugarcane you already have. Let me know if you are interested in more.

Thank you for your suggestions. My primary goal was to make a functional model. As I was co-author of Magnate Lords I have borrowed extensively from it. However considering the event structure of TPTT and its new graphic organization (thx to Solo's great work) - I did not deem it wise to absorb ML's resource seeding code and resource icons. There's also the fact that the game displays all potential building chains in any given holding so more resources = more chains = more clutter in the interface. Finally there's the map itself. When I designed the trade system in ML I used a blank numbered map making it vastly easier to plan resource placement. This doesn't exist as of yet for the SWMH map TPTT uses. So should you wish to help - making such a map would be a 1st step:) Then we could populate it together and add the extra resources and buildings accordingly. PM me and we can discuss this further.

[Grallonsphere]

So, swapping norsegael to schiltron retinue was a mistake on my part :S? If I'm the scot-gael king of Scotland in a scot-gael capital, I still have to convert everyone in my realm somehow to scot-gael in order to have schiltron retinues available? Sorry, these dynamic cultures confuse me lol.

Look at the code:

### Scottish Schiltrons ###
#
### Schiltrons' Muster Grounds ###
ca_scotland_1 = {
desc = ca_scotland_desc
potential = {
OR = {
culture = norsegaelic
culture = scottish
}
}
trigger = {
FROM = {
OR = {
culture = norsegaelic
culture = scottish
}
}
}

Under potential the province culture is specified - under trigger - FROM - its the culture of the ruler.

[jquinn914]

I was referring to Schiltron retinues, I understand the building ordeal. The retinue for Scotgael is set to the Irish gallowglass retinue thingy, the 500 heavy infantry one. The retinue for Scottish which is a culture that doesn't exist in 1066 as you stated Schiltron. I was wondering if scotgaels were supposed to receive this Irish retinue and also how one would go about converting a culture from scotgael to scottish if that is the case.

[Grallonsphere]

Ah I see what you mean - I didn't look at anything other than the buildings. But from what I read online - the gallowglasses were imported from Alba (Scotland) to Ireland - so they were a Norsegael creations at first. As for the evolution from Norsegael to Scottish proper I imagine it's event driven just like the transformation of the Saxons into English after a successful invasion by the Normans of William the Bastard.

[jquinn914]

Yep and before that, the Irish had the Kerns. It would be interesting if the Irish started out with Kerns, then acquired Gallowglass after a triggered event if that's at all possible. Also historically the Gallowglass had a distinct charge tactic which leaves me confused as to why Paradox left the Irish hanging without a cultural tactic. Specifically, the Gallowglass were the most arms versatile soldiers of their time, and they would charge within range to take enemy frontlines out with javelins then fall back allowing others to pick apart the dispersed forces. Adding an Irish tactic weighted on heavy infantry and giving a small bonus to their attack and large bonuses to light infantry and cavalry would be pretty damn cool IMO and restore some Irish dignity .

[Ixor_Drakar]

The irish were known more for their javelinmen(kerns) and light cavalry. Gallowglass(HI) were mercenaries and far after 1066 but they would work well for norsegeal, better than pikemen.

[Grallonsphere]

So 'Kerns' would be light infantry + light cavalry? Gallowglasses already are light cavalry. It's just a matter of adding 3 lines of code.

[jquinn914]

The irish were known more for their javelinmen(kerns) and light cavalry. Gallowglass(HI) were mercenaries and far after 1066 but they would work well for norsegeal, better than pikemen.

Currently, from what I understand, they have them early on and then gain schiltron later on after scottish culture settles in. So like I said before adding kerns to Irish at 1066 then Gallowglass afterwards would be awesome.

[Ixor_Drakar]

Well the way its set up now is Irish-gael, Norse-gael and Scot-gael. Norse-gael are the Norse who settled and intermingled with islanders but retained their viking heritage, which would be heavy infantry. The Scots had become a gaelic speaking kingdom pushing their Pictish ancestry out by 1066. Their forces would be mostly light infantry or pikemen(the romanticized Scottish warrior). It wasn't until the Normans were invited to settle in lowland Scotland that they began to change into what we would call Scottish as apposed to gaelic. Taking on the French language in the royal court and becoming more continental.

[Grallonsphere]

Corrected Christian & Muslim Feudal building files so that mints display where silver mines are:

Christian Feudal file

Muslim Feudal file

[Grallonsphere]

There - simulated evolution of Gallowglasses:

- where 'Kerns' are Irish light infantry (from 1066 to 1200)
- where 'Alban Gallowglasses' are Norsegael light cavalry (from 1066 to 1200)
- where 'Irish Gallowglasses' are Irish light cavalry (from 1150 to 1300)
- where Schiltrons are Scottish heavy infantry (from 1175 to 1325)


Edited Cultural Variations

[Ixor_Drakar]

Galloglass were never cavalry though and a Schiltron is phalanx type formation of pikemen.

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